Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Michael

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Sun_Tzu1
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Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Michael

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

Following on from General Michael's thread, I tried getting to age 3 ASAP with Aztec vs. a computer. I thought 7:30 was a norm Aztec FF time, however, Aztec surprised me and I was able to do it in 6:41.

See recording, details below:

Map: Great Plains
Starting crates: 4 fd, 2 wd. i.e., +1 fd create up on the minimum start.
Aged with 17 vills with the WH politician.
Shipped 600 gold
Aged with the Messenger.
Reached age 3 in 6:41 with 18 vills and a shipment to play immediately.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

Hi G Michael. Saw your other thread about problems. So I've reposted it below.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by GeneralMichael »

Ok I finally got around to watching the rec. Nice one Sun_Tzu1. I will definitely feel better being ast age 3 at 7:00. The 7:00 was bothering me since then somebody could rush me and I would have no army to defend with at 7:00
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

Just out of curiosity, why FF with the Aztecs when they enjoy such massive early game advantages? Isn't that kind of like a Russian FF? Aztecs' rush is just so darn overwhelming it seems to me you'd want to at least give it shot every time, then go semi-FF if your opponent parries your initial onslaught. This, of course, is coming from a player who lives in fear of the Aztecs, who has nightmares about 19 maces supported by JPKs and Skulls, who worries about whether the Aztecs are training coyotes to pwn his xbows and who knows that once the priests start dancing in large numbers around 11:00, you might as well just abandon hope altogether, because you will be fertility-outmassed or ruthlessly war-danced to death :)

I am interested to hear impressions from people who play the Aztecs. I am sure that you all think Aztecs have serious weaknesses. But from the Euro perspective, we dread you 8O
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Tubruk »

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]Just out of curiosity, why FF with the Aztecs when they enjoy such massive early game advantages? Isn't that kind of like a Russian FF? Aztecs' rush is just so darn overwhelming it seems to me you'd want to at least give it shot every time, then go semi-FF if your opponent parries your initial onslaught. This, of course, is coming from a player who lives in fear of the Aztecs, who has nightmares about 19 maces supported by JPKs and Skulls, who worries about whether the Aztecs are training coyotes to pwn his xbows and who knows that once the priests start dancing in large numbers around 11:00, you might as well just abandon hope altogether, because you will be fertility-outmassed or ruthlessly war-danced to death :)

I am interested to hear impressions from people who play the Aztecs. I am sure that you all think Aztecs have serious weaknesses. But from the Euro perspective, we dread you 8O[/quote]

yeah the only aztec FF iv seen effectively was by either ourk or damnit (cant remember tbh) where he did an arrow knight FF, and now that jap/india have been nerfed it might be a good strat, but aztec have so much going for them in colonial it seems a waste to go fortress early imo.

Coy/Mace combo is sexy, aswell as 2SK, 3JPK, 6 Puma is all the anticav you will need tbh.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by huGGy »

Hm, there are some maps and matchups where it might be useful. Like Russian FF vs Spain (Manchus) or vs Japan (Cannons and Musketeer Reform Card). Dunno enough about Aztecs to say what great units they can throw in what situation against their opponents in Age 3, tho.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Tubruk »

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]Hm, there are some maps and matchups where it might be useful. Like Russian FF vs Spain (Manchus) or vs Japan (Cannons and Musketeer Reform Card). Dunno enough about Aztecs to say what great units they can throw in what situation against their opponents in Age 3, tho.[/quote]

yeah i know what you mean they dont really get a big advantage from going age 3 do they, yeah the semi suvarov reforms or whatever its called was quite a success vs japs.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

That is true about the Russians. Surovov Reforms can totally change the course of a game; it is much better than any of the other "transformation" cards. Throw in 2 falcs and look out!

But again, what big Age 3 cards can the Aztecs use if they FF?
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by IndyBrit »

I saw Drew get 30 maces built at 6:00 flat - verified by post-game graphs. It was a team game (against Lazy and I, apologies for forgetting Drew's teammate), and it ultimately didn't carry the day for him, but it was still quite OP. o_O
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by LoN_Colossus »

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]But again, what big Age 3 cards can the Aztecs use if they FF?[/quote]Aging with 3 SK, Town Center Big Button techs, 13 and 11 Mace, infinite 5 JPK, 6 AK, 6 ERK... the list goes down :D

Slightly changing the subject... anyone tried an Aztec FI? I've done a few recently to great effect, beating the same Lt Col twice :P Once in team, once in 1v1. I rec'd both for those interested.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by huGGy »

Lazy and Holly tried it. SK ftw :)
Last edited by huGGy on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by LoN_Colossus »

Thats not the best gem of them all - Infinite 20 Maces! :D You only need about 9 SK to protect them, then spam that shipment because your life depends on it :P
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by GeneralMichael »

Well I started trying an aztec FF to counter the portugese ff. I just don't like to think about charging in at a portugese base that has 3 tc firing at my men. Also I thought this would have been helpful in my league game against Emporal on Yukon where his German troops crushed mine.
Though I do agree going to age 3 does not give the aztecs as big of a bonus as with other civs but they do get the jaguar prowl knights who can get stealthy and they have great siege damage. After they are fully upgraded 10 jaguars can take down japan's shogunate in about 3-5 seconds.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by 36drew »

You can FF as aztec, but in doing so realize that your chances of loosing the game increase significantly. Aztec are a civ that lives with one agenda, and one agenda only -- colonial warfare.

There are seldom situations where an FF/FI are actually good decisions. They might be fun as hell, but nothing more. At the moment the aztec FF is not a competitve strategy at all. I've done some testing with this and at rank 33 I have to really focus to beat a rank 21 player using the aztec FF.

Ofc, it was never stated why the FF was being tested. If your goal is to get better and improve rank, don't spend a second more on it. If your goal is to have lots of fun, sure, go for it. If you just wanna horse around with it once and a while... that's okay too, but it's just not a competitive strat.
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Re: Sun Tzus attempt at a Fast Forward with Aztec - 4 G Mich

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

I was only doing it to see just how quickly I could get to fortress with a realistic Aztec strat :).

In games, I don't FF. Although I do semi-FF.

But, perhaps there is a role for an Aztec FF against a defensive Dutch, Port player, etc. I'm still undecided on that one.

From my experience of Aztec age 3 cards, etc. I don't think there's anything there to make a FF worthwhile. However, recently, I've really started to like Arrow Knights. I've found that tactically, they really offer my army unique capabilities - particularly for stand off attacks.
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