Unlamed Japan
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- Sporting_Lisbon
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Unlamed Japan
Many of you have feeled like ''hmm I wish I could play Japan without making it unfair''.
After reading the patch notes I thought hm so let's pretend this is patched Japan:
No Toshogu nor Golden Pavillion since they were patched;
No Ashis since they were patched;
No Isolationism since it was nerfed;
No Yumi attack boost card since it was nerfed too.
Looks tough heh? See it as if you're playing ports. But don't underestimate it because it's still kewl.
Now let's work around it. Supposing it's a land map:
Now since Heavenly Kami wasn't nerfed and it's a roxxor card you should undoubtedly play it all times as 1st card. It should be equivalent to 3-4 vills in terms of resources it gives you (and it grows with the increase of the number shrines).
I age up with 11-12 vills and I get wonder building with 4 vills. Then I get vils to wood and vills on food just to ensure vill production.
Torii gates is a very good wonder but it lives in the shadow of toshogu and gp for obvious reasons. It allows you to mix Spain with Japan and it gives you 200w for a rax and a samurai. That samurai is actually worth it in this case because you will have to make some samurais no matter what. Yes, you did wait a long time for this moment, you'll need to get samurais as anti-cav since you have no ashis. As first cards in colo you should play 4+4 vills to get an eco going. Start by making yumis as it's a good all around unit as you should already know. The opponent you're playing will surely spam cav and try to abuse it so as soon as you see cav you have to get a stable up and make samurais and naginatas. Samurais are kinda underrated but they are a good all-around unit. The naginatas are very good as meatshield vs enemy cav too, so the Yumi/Nagi/Samurai is a very strong combo that you actually can afford with Heavenly Kami and 4+4 vills cards and another cool thing.
Now if you wanna get a consulate up, after shipping 4+4 vills and you're not in trouble (if you're in trouble 3 samurais can scare cav away) ship 300 export before picking a consu nation. That way it's worth 375 export and I dutch is a very good option for 2 reasons: it gives you a bank which is worth 4.5 vills (plus the 0.8 coin trickle that is worth an extra vill) plus it gives you stadhouders that are an extra anti-cav that is always appreciated. After this getting a market is a nice idea and you have a great eco.
The samurai attack card and the Daymio aura makes your dear Samurais have 33 attack. If you have more than 8-10 samurais you can start the humiliation since the samurais will actually survive the ranged damage until they engage mellee instead of that usual embarrassing ideas of sending 3 samurais and hope they'll kick ass and chew bubblegum.
If you have already dominated the enemy army use the samurais to destroy all the buildings and if you need an extra help ship onin war to let them have more than 100 siege (I can't remember the number).
If you're going to age up, keep the unlameness and use the Shogunate for extra daymios and cheaper units
This is really fun to use (it requires some micro with the samurais nagis and yumis) and it's cool to see the never used samurais. Try it in unrated games or maybe next patch too This should work next patch better since it's easier to make ashis early on and only use samurais later.
edit:
On water maps it's the same but even stronger - As first card ship 3 fishing boats instead of Heavenly Kami, as second card ship 5 fishing boats and as third card 5 fishing boats too, dismiss the 4 vill cards. Heavenly Kami you can play later if you want a boost to your eco (kinda like eco theory).
After reading the patch notes I thought hm so let's pretend this is patched Japan:
No Toshogu nor Golden Pavillion since they were patched;
No Ashis since they were patched;
No Isolationism since it was nerfed;
No Yumi attack boost card since it was nerfed too.
Looks tough heh? See it as if you're playing ports. But don't underestimate it because it's still kewl.
Now let's work around it. Supposing it's a land map:
Now since Heavenly Kami wasn't nerfed and it's a roxxor card you should undoubtedly play it all times as 1st card. It should be equivalent to 3-4 vills in terms of resources it gives you (and it grows with the increase of the number shrines).
I age up with 11-12 vills and I get wonder building with 4 vills. Then I get vils to wood and vills on food just to ensure vill production.
Torii gates is a very good wonder but it lives in the shadow of toshogu and gp for obvious reasons. It allows you to mix Spain with Japan and it gives you 200w for a rax and a samurai. That samurai is actually worth it in this case because you will have to make some samurais no matter what. Yes, you did wait a long time for this moment, you'll need to get samurais as anti-cav since you have no ashis. As first cards in colo you should play 4+4 vills to get an eco going. Start by making yumis as it's a good all around unit as you should already know. The opponent you're playing will surely spam cav and try to abuse it so as soon as you see cav you have to get a stable up and make samurais and naginatas. Samurais are kinda underrated but they are a good all-around unit. The naginatas are very good as meatshield vs enemy cav too, so the Yumi/Nagi/Samurai is a very strong combo that you actually can afford with Heavenly Kami and 4+4 vills cards and another cool thing.
Now if you wanna get a consulate up, after shipping 4+4 vills and you're not in trouble (if you're in trouble 3 samurais can scare cav away) ship 300 export before picking a consu nation. That way it's worth 375 export and I dutch is a very good option for 2 reasons: it gives you a bank which is worth 4.5 vills (plus the 0.8 coin trickle that is worth an extra vill) plus it gives you stadhouders that are an extra anti-cav that is always appreciated. After this getting a market is a nice idea and you have a great eco.
The samurai attack card and the Daymio aura makes your dear Samurais have 33 attack. If you have more than 8-10 samurais you can start the humiliation since the samurais will actually survive the ranged damage until they engage mellee instead of that usual embarrassing ideas of sending 3 samurais and hope they'll kick ass and chew bubblegum.
If you have already dominated the enemy army use the samurais to destroy all the buildings and if you need an extra help ship onin war to let them have more than 100 siege (I can't remember the number).
If you're going to age up, keep the unlameness and use the Shogunate for extra daymios and cheaper units
This is really fun to use (it requires some micro with the samurais nagis and yumis) and it's cool to see the never used samurais. Try it in unrated games or maybe next patch too This should work next patch better since it's easier to make ashis early on and only use samurais later.
edit:
On water maps it's the same but even stronger - As first card ship 3 fishing boats instead of Heavenly Kami, as second card ship 5 fishing boats and as third card 5 fishing boats too, dismiss the 4 vill cards. Heavenly Kami you can play later if you want a boost to your eco (kinda like eco theory).
Last edited by Sporting_Lisbon on Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
Yes they are great but many people don't know how to use them, so the analogy stands
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
hehe, nice going Sporting, I've worked out a few strats as well for the 'new' japan and they rox
with torii gates you can do iro-like rushes actually
working on a semi-FF as well, but age III doesn't offer all that much except for flaming arrows
Japan could very well turn out as a heavy rusher, instead of brit-house-boomer
with torii gates you can do iro-like rushes actually
working on a semi-FF as well, but age III doesn't offer all that much except for flaming arrows
Japan could very well turn out as a heavy rusher, instead of brit-house-boomer
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
Re: Unlamed Japan
Is this the fan patch? All I know is that laming with Japan is fun and easy lol.
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
15 sams @ 6.45 is fun too (112 siege powah!)
so many options with those japanese
so many options with those japanese
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
The Samurai is the most underrated unit out there. Yumi/nagi/samurai is really deadly just because of their huge attack.
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
sams could use some sort of boost though, vs cav or a small cost reduction maybe
I also don't get why they have x0.5 vs vils
I also don't get why they have x0.5 vs vils
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
It's kinda like abus. If sams would get a boost it would have to be just improving the damage vs cav to 2x instead of 1.75x because anything else could make them OP like halbs used to be.
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
I'll still pick ashigarus over sams in a serious game, the HI counters are really strong (maces, CKN, strelets etc...) and if you can't fire back a few rounds from range, they will die too fast without doing much. 4.5 speed is not even enough to outrun some of them :/
doppels don't have that penalty vs vils so sams shouldn't either, abus are a complete diff unit and deal siege dmg
doppels don't have that penalty vs vils so sams shouldn't either, abus are a complete diff unit and deal siege dmg
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
Yes, early on ashigarus are much more efficient of course but samurai/nagi can get to be more devastating that ashi/nagi next patch. The samurais alone aren't supposed to kill the anti-HI (we don't really want ashis back right? ) so what I tried and it's pretty cool is getting them in cover mode (for some whooping 460 hp tanks) when they're too far from the RI and you have other units around dealing damage, like say, yumis.
I agree that the vil penalty is dumb too. But I still think Samurais are a totally different unit from Doppels. You can easily get 33 attack samurais just with attack card and daymio.
I agree that the vil penalty is dumb too. But I still think Samurais are a totally different unit from Doppels. You can easily get 33 attack samurais just with attack card and daymio.
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
agreed
I think they could actually be used as brit grens, they got 2 upgrade cards that make em better than the grens (even after the OP card brits got)
they are faster and better vs cav, maybe a new strat for team games?
I think they could actually be used as brit grens, they got 2 upgrade cards that make em better than the grens (even after the OP card brits got)
they are faster and better vs cav, maybe a new strat for team games?
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
Yeah Samurais>>grens!
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Unlamed Japan
japan + germans
@6.50: 15 sams and 16 uhlans (see: Kaiser's Ruthless, Evil, Savage & Merciless UBER-UHLAN SPAM!)
:mrgreen:
@6.50: 15 sams and 16 uhlans (see: Kaiser's Ruthless, Evil, Savage & Merciless UBER-UHLAN SPAM!)
:mrgreen:
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Unlamed Japan
Just lost one game vs a french major. Musk/hus is impossible o_O Was it Xbow/hus and I'd have won.