Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
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- Kaiser_von_Nuben
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Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
Ports are simply NOT UP. Spain is UPer these days, both in 1v1 and in team. Personally, I think Ports are one of the best 3v3 civs out there. They can fight in colonial with muskets or early goons, FF real fast, boom like mad and once they hit late game, upgraded jinetes flat-out win games. I've been watching high PR 3v3s, and the Port players always pwn. They hit imperial long before their mates, and with long-range jinetes (genitours) they just blast every kind of unit to smithereens. Obviously they slaughter cav, but I have seen games where they stand off at 20 range and waste muskets, too! Skilled players can even beat skirms. After all, with 30% ranged resistance, upgraded jinetes counter their RI counters. And chances are their teammates have units that can solidly smack down large masses of RI (ie, gendarmes for LBs, etc.).
Additionally, jinetes en masse can just go riding through your base and shoot all your vils. Sure, they have a 0.5X v. vils, but when you have 50 jinetes and 51 attack, you don't need to be a math professor to figure out that hitting attack move near a plantation will kill a lot of civilians. Meanwhile, when cav tries to intercept the jinetes, they all get shot, and skirms huffing it at 4 speed just can't even get close to these 7.25 speed bad boys. What's more, a jinete only costs 180 resources... not a bad deal at all with 99-vil monster econ.
So how do you stop jinetes? Not much can, but there is one solid counter. No, it is not the doppelsoldner. True, if doppels can get in there and start hacking, the jinetes are toast, but more often they just hit and run you to death. The better solution (drumroll please) is... THE WAR WAGON! I have recently discovered that war wagons are a devastating late-game German weapon, especially after sending all the OP German cav upgrade cards. War wagons can stand up to jinetes and kill them. You'll lose a few, but with 800 HP in Age 4--and over 1000 in Age 5--they can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. In Age 4, upgraded war wagons have 18 range (almost as good as a skirm), do BASE 71 ranged damage, with 3X v. cav. That's a fat 213 damage to cav PER SHOT (ouch!). If you have 20 War Wagons, imagine what kind of carnage you'll inflict. So a jinete has 30% RR? So what, you're getting 213 damage per shot. And if you go imperial, you'll do base 94 damage, with 282 damage per shot to cav. Remember, jinetes never have more than 500 HP in imperial. Your war wagons will always beat them in a stand up fight. They train slowly, so the cav training card and mass cav church upgrades are a big help for a spam.
The key is to have a big mass of war wagons, and that is the trick. If you have less than 20, they won't work wonders. So obviously we're talking about maxed-out econs late game. Don't even think about war wagons until mid-industrial AT THE EARLIEST. I usually don't even start using them until uhlans are no longer useful. Generally this happens when the battle settles into a static late-game contest, and I've induced my opponent to invest heavily in anti-cav. In those circumstances, uhlans lose their appeal. But if my opponent goes back to RI in an effort to stop the war wagons, I just go back to uhlans... it is a nice option.
I suppose the big point here is that ranged cav en masse is ideal for huge late game team battles. True, you might run into a Japan lamer with 3 daimyos, the shogun and every Yumi upgrade under the sun, but that's why you have a French teammate!
Additionally, jinetes en masse can just go riding through your base and shoot all your vils. Sure, they have a 0.5X v. vils, but when you have 50 jinetes and 51 attack, you don't need to be a math professor to figure out that hitting attack move near a plantation will kill a lot of civilians. Meanwhile, when cav tries to intercept the jinetes, they all get shot, and skirms huffing it at 4 speed just can't even get close to these 7.25 speed bad boys. What's more, a jinete only costs 180 resources... not a bad deal at all with 99-vil monster econ.
So how do you stop jinetes? Not much can, but there is one solid counter. No, it is not the doppelsoldner. True, if doppels can get in there and start hacking, the jinetes are toast, but more often they just hit and run you to death. The better solution (drumroll please) is... THE WAR WAGON! I have recently discovered that war wagons are a devastating late-game German weapon, especially after sending all the OP German cav upgrade cards. War wagons can stand up to jinetes and kill them. You'll lose a few, but with 800 HP in Age 4--and over 1000 in Age 5--they can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. In Age 4, upgraded war wagons have 18 range (almost as good as a skirm), do BASE 71 ranged damage, with 3X v. cav. That's a fat 213 damage to cav PER SHOT (ouch!). If you have 20 War Wagons, imagine what kind of carnage you'll inflict. So a jinete has 30% RR? So what, you're getting 213 damage per shot. And if you go imperial, you'll do base 94 damage, with 282 damage per shot to cav. Remember, jinetes never have more than 500 HP in imperial. Your war wagons will always beat them in a stand up fight. They train slowly, so the cav training card and mass cav church upgrades are a big help for a spam.
The key is to have a big mass of war wagons, and that is the trick. If you have less than 20, they won't work wonders. So obviously we're talking about maxed-out econs late game. Don't even think about war wagons until mid-industrial AT THE EARLIEST. I usually don't even start using them until uhlans are no longer useful. Generally this happens when the battle settles into a static late-game contest, and I've induced my opponent to invest heavily in anti-cav. In those circumstances, uhlans lose their appeal. But if my opponent goes back to RI in an effort to stop the war wagons, I just go back to uhlans... it is a nice option.
I suppose the big point here is that ranged cav en masse is ideal for huge late game team battles. True, you might run into a Japan lamer with 3 daimyos, the shogun and every Yumi upgrade under the sun, but that's why you have a French teammate!
"The German Army will not stand for it!"
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
Goons are one of my favorite late game units. They don't really have a counter, although mass ranged infantry can sort of cost effectively hold up. One big reason I like them is that it's like having two armies - they can quickly run from battle to battle.
Never been into War Wagons, but that's a good thought for trying to counter.
Never been into War Wagons, but that's a good thought for trying to counter.
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.
- Kaiser_von_Nuben
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""36drew""]What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.[/quote]
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.
"The German Army will not stand for it!"
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""36drew""]What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.[/quote]
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""36drew""]What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.[/quote]
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.
- Kaiser_von_Nuben
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""36drew""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""36drew""]What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.[/quote]
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.[/quote]
You and me both. I am discovering that--en masse--they are the supreme unit class in the game. War Wagons are literally unstoppable if you have more than 25 in a group with the upgrades. And ruyters pwn, too....you could have 100 of the buggers.
One last thing about War Wagons. For ranged cav, they are slow at only 6 speed, but you can send a card that boosts their speed to 6.6. Not bad for a tank :-P
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.[/quote]
You and me both. I am discovering that--en masse--they are the supreme unit class in the game. War Wagons are literally unstoppable if you have more than 25 in a group with the upgrades. And ruyters pwn, too....you could have 100 of the buggers.
One last thing about War Wagons. For ranged cav, they are slow at only 6 speed, but you can send a card that boosts their speed to 6.6. Not bad for a tank :-P
"The German Army will not stand for it!"
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)
- Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
Haven't you lived the WW era? :p I think you'd have loved it hehe
- RascalJones
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""36drew""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""36drew""]What's the base range of a goon? I thought that they ended up with 20 or 22 range after the age iv range card plus the range upgrade at the arsenal.[/quote]
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.[/quote]
Don't forget Zamburaks. My favorite cav in the game.....even though I haven't played in forever.
Base range of a dragoon is 12. With upgrade and genitours it winds up being 20 (same as a skirmisher). War Wagon base range is 16. With upgrade at arsenal it winds up at 18.[/quote]
I just drool over ranged cav. Something about dragoons, war wagons, and ruyters just gives me the shivers.[/quote]
Don't forget Zamburaks. My favorite cav in the game.....even though I haven't played in forever.
- I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]And ruyters pwn, too....you could have 100 of the buggers.[/quote]
or even 150
my fav ranged cav by far
or even 150
my fav ranged cav by far
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
im sure ranged light cav only do base damage to other ranged/light cav. not 100% sure though, but i remember in an unrated game my bow riders would only do 20 or so damage vs Zamburaks, and they where only doing 15 back.
- Am3ricanCa3sar
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
imo, ports strongest combo's late game, leaving artilary out of the equation, is either hussar/muskets, or cassador/muskets, all fully upgraded with unit up grade cards and arsenal upgrades. Goons are great especially with organs backing them, but I have found it not as strong, or as versitile as concentrating on muskets/cassador's/hussars. Could be my playstyle though.
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Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
I'm confused I posted here, did it get deleted?....
Seriously boggled..
Seriously boggled..
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
ports own. just send eco theory as your first card and youre good to go
Re: Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?
[quote=""Tatltael""]ports own. just send eco theory as your first card and youre good to go[/quote]
If you turtle/boom..
In a rush game it's pretty useless, I mean what you gather 8k resource or so in a colonial rush game that's 8.8k but the flow it comes in isn't that useful..
If you turtle/boom..
In a rush game it's pretty useless, I mean what you gather 8k resource or so in a colonial rush game that's 8.8k but the flow it comes in isn't that useful..