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Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:16 am
by EndlessPower
Ok, yep, here I am again making a thread about russian rushes. As you can see russia is my number #1 enemy :P

I wonder if you guys have some "secret weapons" to use against those russian guys making 2-3 blockhouses and spamming units madly.

What's the key to beat mass? Everyone knows CAV beats russia, but have the german for exemple, Uhlan's HP is low and can't stand a big unit mass.
Any tips?

Note that this time I'm not asking for particular counter-rush strategies, just something more generalistic like a good card to get in these cases, a special unit, etc.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:55 am
by huGGy
Germans do pretty fine if you start with xbows/pikes (for free cossacks) and free uhlans and switch to uhlans later on. Uhlans do have low hp, but great attack and if you massed uhlans they eat everything russia can effort (in age 2).

With aztecs some kind of turtle (10WP asap) and coyotes/maces should work. Try to send 2 warhuts as well (russia can't really siege) and then your eco > his.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:39 am
by Soccerman771
As a Russian player, the thing that gets me most of the time is....towers believe it or not. Other than that, boom and try to get the fb down as soon as possible.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:46 am
by 36drew
Something isn't right if your uhlans aren't pwning russia. They pwn everything russia can throw at you in colonial -- they even are okay vs. russias crappy muskets. Massed uhlan plus some xbows to pick off their HI should win. Germany > Russia.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:14 am
by Navarone_Guy
Yeah, if anything, uhlans are the best weapon any civ has against Russia in age 2. Just spam uhlans and keep a few xbows to take out his muskets. He shouldn't be able to do ANYTHING.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:31 pm
by EndlessPower
That was exactly what I though and what I've done. I spammed uhlans backed with some xbows defended by like 10 pikes.

But his mass was so damn huge my uhlans couldn't do it. I had never seen such a masser in 1on1 he had so many muskets and strelets.

Had no towers tho, guess in these cases I should get towers.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:38 pm
by I__CHAOS__I
[quote=""EndlessPower""]That was exactly what I though and what I've done. I spammed uhlans backed with some xbows defended by like 10 pikes.

But his mass was so damn huge my uhlans couldn't do it. I had never seen such a masser in 1on1 he had so many muskets and strelets.

Had no towers tho, guess in these cases I should get towers.[/quote]

at what time was his mass so huge?
use ur uhlans to spot where his army is and how big it is
I dont think you need towers

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:50 pm
by huGGy
Don't give the russian player time to get his eco up. Attack him early (first fight is important, you need to bring down his cossacks) and do constant raiding. I played russians a lot myself and it's really hard to spam units and have a constant vill production in the beginning.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:53 pm
by EndlessPower
[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]
at what time was his mass so huge?
use ur uhlans to spot where his army is and how big it is
I dont think you need towers[/quote]

hm, about 8 minutes I guess.

He attacked me once early and first time I made it to drive him back.

Then I kept making army but he had 2 blockhouses massing so hard that when he attacked me I didn't stand a chance even with a decent uhlan army.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]Don't give the russian player time to get his eco up. Attack him early (first fight is important, you need to bring down his cossacks) and do constant raiding. I played russians a lot myself and it's really hard to spam units and have a constant vill production in the beginning.[/quote]

Well, the thing is, he overmasses me since the very start.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:05 pm
by 36drew
Post a replay. I still find this hard to believe. I've always found germany vs. russia one of the easiest matches in the game.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:44 pm
by EndlessPower
So did I. It's a shame I don't have the Rec.

I usually play aztec, I turned to germany exactly because I though it was easy and afterall it didn't go over so well.

Next time this happens tho I will upload the rec.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:42 pm
by ruminator
I have had similar problems with Hussars v mass mace - while they should win on paper, the dubious pathing of uhlans and hussars seems to have them bumping in to each other while they get shot to bits. I think you need some uber micro to win ... and I don't have it!

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:00 pm
by deaconferal
[quote=""ruminator""]I have had similar problems with Hussars v mass mace - while they should win on paper, the dubious pathing of uhlans and hussars seems to have them bumping in to each other while they get shot to bits. I think you need some uber micro to win ... and I don't have it![/quote]

Try using attack move. It basicly micros your cav automatically on groups of LI. Theres a VOD of parfait doing this on rtsprofessional.com. Link on the front page. It might help that problem.

The biggest problem with Russia is that they are so food heavy right at the start of colonial. They need to queue up their vils (270) plus a batch of strels (375) and they still need wood for houses and such. So I would suggest disrupting his food vils as soon as you get your first uhlans and then when he actually attacks you at home, your uhlans should mop up his strels. Other than that just follow whats been said here. Uhlans and xbows should really eat Russia alive.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:07 pm
by 36drew
x 2. Use attack move and you don't really have pathing issues. Or even better yet -- use attack move and then micro them further.

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:25 pm
by Kaiser_von_Nuben
You should not wait until 8:00 to see how big his army is. I agree with everyone here that you need to get lots of uhlans right away in colonial and bother him from the get-go. I have a good rec of Luigi using the early uhlans, then xbow strat against Russia. Use those uhlans to scout, pick off vils and eliminate the cossacks. With 9 xbows following the horse, you should have little trouble killing strels and muskets. Meanwhile, he will bankrupt himself trying to replace strels at 375 food a pop (or vils at 270 a pop). The thing I love about uhlans is that they leave you plenty of food to keep your econ going... it is all about coin with them.

BTW, lots of experts say that the 5 Uhlan card is not worth having. I find that it works well in team games and in a 1v1 emergency, but it only represents 750 resources, 300 of which are technically "free" because Germany gets two free uhlans with every colonial shipment (except team cav damage). The 9 xbow card, by contrast, is probably the best colonial military card in the game. The xbows alone are worth 720 resources, AND you get 2 uhlans worth 300. That is a very well balanced early force; with pikes added in you can handle almost anyone.