N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

Little poll to keep ya busy

So which civ do you think will be dominating after the patch?

I say india, They have some very strong units, easy map control when aging with agra. A good eco boom.
They are a bit slow to start, but they have the tools to a real powerhouse.
If they get a boost early on, we have a new iro.

I just hope they do a small patch, nerf the obvious op china stuff, leave the other top civs untouched, boost xbow, give otto something else then silk road, nerf savostopol and give russia something small, give ports an extra food crate and their combat cards in the normal ages and something for the brits.

The only imbalance I see is aztec military. They need a reshuflle of their units and cards. Im so sick of ERK.

I'm naive enough to believe ES and their selected experts will bring us an easy to play and just with a small advantage civ rather than an OP one.

None, they will bring balance to the Force

LMAO :roll:

It's clearly going to be Dutch. While India may become stronger with a boost, ES won't pull another Sioux and boost them enough for them to be totally dominant. The only boosts I can see them giving India are something to make their start a little faster and maybe something equivalent to CIR for Ghurkas, neither of which would make India OP.

A lot of people are playing India right now because it's a decent (not super strong) civ that is fun to play and still relatively new.

ES will nerf China, probably too much, and China will probably be worse off than Iro.

As they have said numerous times before, ES is not going to nerf Dutch, so they will remain as the top civ. The Sioux will move from 3rd strongest to 2nd strongest.

[quote=""KingKaramazov""]ES will nerf China, probably too much, and China will probably be worse off than Iro.

As they have said numerous times before, ES is not going to nerf Dutch, so they will remain as the top civ. The Sioux will move from 3rd strongest to 2nd strongest.[/quote]

Those two statments are very truthful. If you want to play China and win, do it now before the patch. Then get ready for every game you play to be against the Dutch....

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]I'm naive enough to believe ES and their selected experts will bring us an easy to play and just with a small advantage civ rather than an OP one.[/quote]

I really hope u'r right... the fact that some experts are actively testing is a good thing

Dutch. They're focusing on China right now so they're completely ignoring the Dutch, who are just as OP as China. They're just not a new civ so not as many people play them and therefore it's not as apparent. I'm sorry to say, though, that from what I've seen China will be nerfed to the point of being mediocre.

Germugal. Great. Voted for it . lol

Dutch are not uber strong as early french and otto, Germany, Spain 1.08, Iro or China ever were. They have no special early game, they shine in midgame, and their lategame is one of the worst.

They just have 1 (one) very hard to counter strategy. Yes a 2-4 bank FF is one of the best strats around but it is almost always used and that makes it so much more easy to counter.

A well timed heavy infantery rush/pressure can counter it, or a good eco boom FF.

What makes dutch players so good, is that they can do the same thing over and over again, making them even better on their bank FF. So you have a player performing a strong strat with a build order he can perform blind. And thats how he can beat players of better level.

I have been trying out Spain and french a bit, but with little time to play and all the options these civ have, I cant get any steady build orders (with these civs I anticipate and react much more to what the opponent is doing).

So I can understand the frustration of some players being beaten by a player of equal/lesser strength, and calling dutch lame and op. But not nearly as OP as some players like to think.

A slight nerf is needed for dutch to lessen the FF bank spam effectivenes, they could bring back the villager gold gathering rate a bit or they could reduce the amount of experience a bank gets. A very slight nerf and some boost to other civs and then wiat and see.
What dutch also need is to have to send less cards to get max economy. They should make the 1 bank cards upgrade the gathering rate of banks to. an age 1 card with a 5% gathering increase, and an age 2 bank card with a 10% gathering increase. And make tulip 25% like all other gathering upgrade cards.

Dutch were weak the first 18 months of this game, what some players are proposing would make them even worse.

well, we can discuss forever how OP dutch are, but a civ with 1 strat that works on each map vs each civ is plain and simple lame.
But not only the Bank FF is strong, they can water boom, spy rush, pike rush (;)) 3 TC boom...

HI rush doesnt work, dunno where you got that from. Skirms will pwn it.
Eco Boom wont work either, except maybe for a few good boom civs.
You can't let the dutch alone for 10 minutes or they won't need a lategame.

I even like their lategame tbh... 150 army pop is pwnage.

How much of a nerf they need is hard to tell, kinda depends what happens to the other civs as well. Maybe give Dutch a shipment penalty like germany or india?

I know they can do a lot more because I win a lot of games doing something different. No other duch player however has ever spy rushed me, or water boomed, or 3 TC boom.
Not one.

And what is lame. All spanish are FF or going for rods. all frenchies and german are going xbows. Otto go abus most of the time. aztec do a puma/bb rush. Russian a strelet/musket spam. Brits boom with muskets or longbow. Ports do 3 TC ff. Sioux axe rider/wakina FF. Sometiems a club rush. Iro prowler FF. China FF. Japan ashigary spam.
Thats is 95 % of the games I play.
All civs use 1 or 2 dominant strats.

Im just warning that the things I read about dutch are seriously overdoing it. Some players just vent their frustration by shouting OP OP OP.

The laming part of the players population will just jump on another civ if dutch are nerfed hard.
They went from german to spain to iro to dutch to china.
They will always find some civ to exploit.

Most of the time i try a FF with the germans (except in 2on2 games). Ports need a boost in age 2. They have no other chance than doing a FF or a water boom. Actually i have some troubles playing dutch right. I bet some good players and struggled vs some not so good players lol. A water boom is pretty hard to handle, cause you are short on wood in the early game and your opponent will rush you if he can find this schooner card in your deck. Tried it twice, lost twice.

I think Ports, Indians and maybe Brits (dunno) need a little boost.
Nerf China an i think its pretty good then.

The thing with Dutch is their banks allow them to have a largely unraidable economy that is extremely strong within the first 12 minutes of the game. That's what allows them to do an FF and begin pumping out gold-heavy units. Add that to their faster gold mining bonus as well as their pretty good cards and you have a civ that will bowl over most civs in mid-game.

It's not unlikely that you could play against a Dutch player and kill off half of his villagers in the first ten minutes of the game but once he has 4 banks up and gets to fortress, he's already gained enough momentum to get a leg up on you. It's absurd.

The Dutch aren't totally wth like the disciple FF often is, but they do have issues. I'm not entirely sure what should be done about it, though.