Dutch balance.

[murdilator]

Actually I might just reconsider part of my post, since I have a new idea.

Wouldn't it better if Ruyters (or all ranged cavalry for that matter) get a 0.75x attack multiplier vs. Infantry or vs. Heavy infantry? That way, ranged cav wouldn't dominate so easily. But then again, ranged cavalry should beat musketeers and other infantry (with the exception of skirms).

What ya think?

About the Brit/Dutch battles:

I rarely stay in rush territory, if you can understand. Lategame (or mid-late game for example), Britain has many avenues to go down, as well as Dutch. In fact I play much more often as Dutch (on Vanilla), so I have some understanding of what is good and bad for them. It doesn't only come down to who has the best micro or who builds the counters properly, but how you use them in a tactical plane (micro is skirmishing, while using big tactics and big pictures gets you the win). The major tactics focus on deception, army placement, and economics (at least that is what I believe). I also believe that Vanilla is sometimes more balanced than TAD; there are no cheap strategies (except of course for Otto/Russia).

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Dragoons already got -10% rr, they're fine atm.

What needs nerf imo atm is hus vs pikes and also musks at some point. I have the feeling cav is by far the most versatile unit in the game and that should be the musketeer.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

I love goon/LB/culv. It's virtually a pure counter-army, but it works. Igiul used to use it when he played Brits. His build basically involved 10 early hussars for harassment, then some wood gathering and LBs. Then he went up to fort, manor-boomed in the interim, added more LBs, goons and culvs as needed. A big mass of LBs is one of the best things you can have in this game; it pretty much beats any similar mass except yumis. Protect it with goons and you are good to go.

[gendarme]

Did you know that iGiul=luigi? It's luigi backwards, I heard that from a VOD by the allmight MrMilo whom I found on facebook the other day xD

[luukje]

With all the players suggesting all kinds of nerfs for dutch, some seem to forget that dutch have been UP for long periods and what i have read will make them bottom of the pack even more than ever.

The problem is, they are not the best in colonial. If you nerf their fortress to much, dutch just become a very ordinary civ. Then they are weaker in colonial and just as good in fortress, why would anyone play a civ that has no big strengths?

you cant have a game where 2 or 3 civs with just one strategy dominate, but trying to make everything perfectly matched, takes to much fun out of this game.

[HeJurmhoanni]

[quote=""gendarme""]Did you know that iGiul=luigi? It's luigi backwards, I heard that from a VOD by the allmight MrMilo whom I found on facebook the other day xD[/quote]
Knew that first time i saw it

[ckei]

[quote=""luukje""]With all the players suggesting all kinds of nerfs for dutch, some seem to forget that dutch have been UP for long periods and what i have read will make them bottom of the pack even more than ever.

The problem is, they are not the best in colonial. If you nerf their fortress to much, dutch just become a very ordinary civ. Then they are weaker in colonial and just as good in fortress, why would anyone play a civ that has no big strengths?

you cant have a game where 2 or 3 civs with just one strategy dominate, but trying to make everything perfectly matched, takes to much fun out of this game.[/quote]

Well people do play french

But I do agree with you. Its boring to play a civ that has none/minor uniqueness in the gameplay. I just think that Dutch is just overall hard to nerf and boost b/c even a little change in stats and so on haves a big diffrnece.On the other hand a change on the paper doesnt mean that the civ automativly becomes unplayable.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Dutch 1v1 colonial is really hard, no doubt about it. Obviously the nerfs can't affect that, because it doesn't get much worse as it is. The only question is nerfing fortress capabilities.

I also agree that even minor changes can drive things completely out of balance. I mean, who knew that a lousy extra 100 wood would launch the Dutch back into super-stardom?

For all the complaints about Dutch, though, they are still not as ridiculously OP as TWC days--early-mid 2007. Does anyone still remember that time? 380 XP for a bank AND extra wood? Skirms did full damage to cav. Super-fast age-up times. You got to fortress with 2 shipments and a 4-bank eco. They even had a card that let them build 2 more TCs for 400 wood total. It was just pathetic.

I don't think people even bothered with hussar starts back then. On the other hand, I think the overall quality of AOE players has greatly improved over time.

[I__CHAOS__I]

I think for most of us, the 2lt-1lt'ers, the game is very balanced
We still make a ton of other mistakes that influence the result more than any other balance difference