TvZ - The other end of the story

[WarlordR]

What key is it by default? And does it work the same way like in AoE?

Default hotkey is [A], then left click the destination area. The units will engage the opponent closest to them. So yes, works the same.

[KingKaramazov]

Thors counter everything the Zerg have on the ground. They're unstoppable if you have SCVs repairing and marine support. What do you want?

Mutas are actually the best Zerg counter for them now that the Ultra's aoe has been nerfed (Thors now beat Ultras 1v1 despite costing less and the fact that Ultras are meant to counter armor).


Yeah, Zerg are messed up.

[WarlordR]

I lol'ed at this; 'Thors counter everything the Zerg have on the ground.', everything apart from hydralisk, zergling, roaches (as long as there aren't too many thors), ultralisk.

Now not all of these are actually cost-effective, but given how the zerg currently evolve around expanding a lot and being able to spam more units than any other race at any given time, that usually isn't necessary.

I dunno where you got all the ultralisk hate from, but multiple ultra own multiple thors due to their AoE.

In fact, unless u screw up by walking into a choke ultralisk own most ground units.

Tank:
- Immobile
+ Splash damage
++ Long range
- Low armor
- Low firing rate
- Requires factory

Ultralisk:
++ Very mobile
+Cleave damage
- Melee range
+Extremely high armor
- Expensive
++ Requires only a single larva

Seeing how most people found (and sometimes still find) the tank OP against any ground unit; Tank = OP < Ultralisk ?

[Comadevil]

What is this for a strange comparison Ultralisk-- tank?

Before u can build Ultralisk u need the hive (Tier 3 hatchery) and build an ultralisk cavern.
Also an Ultralisk costs 300/200 while the tank costs 150/125. So one Ultralisk costs also almost as much as 2 siege tanks

And that 1.1.1 Ultralisks own Thors is a myth. Where did u get that?
see second spoiler at htis thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=156563

[WarlordR]

[quote=""Comadevil""]What is this for a strange comparison Ultralisk-- tank?

Before u can build Ultralisk u need the hive (Tier 3 hatchery) and build an ultralisk cavern.
Also an Ultralisk costs 300/200 while the tank costs 150/125. So one Ultralisk costs also almost as much as 2 siege tanks[/quote]

I compared the two because quite a lot of people (mostly zerg) found/find tanks OP, also I mentioned that ultralisk are expensive, the tier issue is np since talking ultralisk is talking late-game anyway.

[froggyman]

Zerg arent messed up ... look at Fruitdealer he owns hopetorture pretty damn pro T

[KingKaramazov]

[quote=""WarlordR""]I lol'ed at this; 'Thors counter everything the Zerg have on the ground.', everything apart from hydralisk, zergling, roaches (as long as there aren't too many thors), ultralisk.

Now not all of these are actually cost-effective, but given how the zerg currently evolve around expanding a lot and being able to spam more units than any other race at any given time, that usually isn't necessary.

I dunno where you got all the ultralisk hate from, but multiple ultra own multiple thors due to their AoE.

In fact, unless u screw up by walking into a choke ultralisk own most ground units.

Tank:
- Immobile
+ Splash damage
++ Long range
- Low armor
- Low firing rate
- Requires factory

Ultralisk:
++ Very mobile
+Cleave damage
- Melee range
+Extremely high armor
- Expensive
++ Requires only a single larva

Seeing how most people found (and sometimes still find) the tank OP against any ground unit; Tank = OP < Ultralisk ?[/quote]


Ultralisks lose to Thors now 1:1.

Thors are very strong against most other Zerg units, as well. In my experience the best counter for them is mass Zerglings, but if the Thors have infantry support, or entrenched tanks (pretty much a guarantee), the lings are ****.


You cannot call Ultras and Thors comparable in terms of tier. Terrans can get Thors out relatively quickly. They're basically a tier 2.5 unit. Ultralisks are tier 3, which is very difficult for Zerg to reach due to their dependence on vespene and expansions.

Ultralisks don't really own most ground units, by the way. Due to their weak AoE and their relatively low damage against non-armored units, they aren't particularly cost-effective against masses of smaller tier 1 units. Zealots and Marines own Ultras per cost, especially if they have support. Marauders destroy them so easily it's sickening.

Also, you nicely pointed out how Zerg don't really have any cost-effective counters. They MUST outnumber their opponent and have more resource-revenue in order to have the upper hand.

This pigeon-holes Zerg, since they really don't have the option of 1 base strategies involving teching. They can't really out-swarm the opponent unless they have more than one base, since Terran and Protoss now have much greater ability to mass units quickly (contrast with SC1). This is a significant design flaw, in my opinion, and is a big reason why Zerg is rather boring compared to the other two races.