The new units completely revealed

[etrips888]

I'm very excited to see the oracle in action. Probably what I'm most excited for!

[Comadevil]

EDIT: oh and the new nexus abilities.. Oh my, now every noob will be recalling all game long cause they cant spend their chrono boost... Dunno what to expect from the defensive ability though...

Well units are paralyzed a bit after recalling also at least Zerg with its viper abduct ability can easily sJapanesee some big core units. The recall can also be balanced by how many units u can recall (radius/range), how much energy it costs (right now 75)

Doesnt really matter how much energy the recall costs. Even the pros have 100 energy nexuses from time to time.

Nothing is final. Can also be raised to 100 or even 150 energy

Well the competitive games will inevitably suffer from any changes and the more and the bigger changes the longer it takes for the game-play to get perfect. If the changes are this big the game wont be perfect until like 1 year after LotV.

Wasn't really different with Sc1- Broodwar

[GrEaTeR_KnArLoC]

I'm not thrilled about the protoss unit changes.... especially the removal of carriers.

I do not like the replicant, especially...

I do like the new nexus energy options, though.

It's still alpha, though, so many things could change.

[jerom]

on the teamliquid thread aaryn posted (was other topic iirc) many people actually disliked the Terran changes, most really liked the Zerg changes and the people were neutral about protoss. Its suprises me that so many people dislike the Terran changes since I think they are actually really nice

[Comadevil]

People like to whine all the time
Also maybe the polls are a little biased if zerg doesn't like terran changes for example.
Maybe Zergs begin to whine if the viper cannot pull massive units anymore because in the end it is maybe OP


Lets see how the beta turns out and then begin with whining

Though i also dislike today the oracle and the replicant though the oracle only because i cannot imagine how it will harass effectively, but maybe beta will show it to me

[Aaryn_GenD]

the oralcle is brilliant, the replicant is crap and shut be cut. you can harass with phoenixes already, why should the oracle do damage too? i will go ahead and say that the oracle is the best idea they had

[jerom]

a viber pulling all my tanks would make me cry

Though on the other hand Terran gets a new way to deal with mutas really effectively so thats good imo

[jerom]

Just reading some topics about the replicant and im wondering how this unit could be worth it.

If you lower the cost so that copying units would be cost effective it would be OP. If you dont then its cost ineffective so its UP. Impossible to balance imo. So far the best uses are prolly getting yourself some fancy spell casters (eg ht infestor ghost), maybe tanks agains tthe 1/1/1 or banshees or something of that kind. Most interesting one Ive read is to get a replicant vs dt rush where you copy your opponents dt after getting detection and then going to his base where there is technically no detectin to be spotted anywhere near which would be gg instantly. Many people speculating about copying scv's to get yourselfs repaired units, mules, or even copying mules themselves. I wonder if things like that can even be fun (or viable), I mean, I think protoss zerg and Terran should be different races so if its viable to copy SCV's to get yourself a OC then I feel like it just messes up the game to see a protoss with 3 OC's or sth. It just doesnt feel right.

I think either way around this unit is going to be cut. First of all its basically either OP or UP. Secondly the other uses it'd have are so limited, and I tought Blizzard didnt want underused units. Lastly I feel like this just isnt right for the game. If it were to really get viable youd see half protoss half Terran armies, and I dont think you are still playing protoss then.

Also I feel like in the current state the oracle isnt really nice. It seems to have very few health and the forcefields over the minerals seem to have too few hitpoints. I do think that this unit can be amazingly viable if you actually balance the energy cost, their hp and the forcefield's hp out correctly. The only thing that seems concerning is that you have to build a stargate to get these units. Maybe they should cut the replicant, and put the oracle in the robotics facility. I dont know though.

The last thing I feel about these changes is the lack of use the phoenix will have now. I mean they aren't gonna be the best harasser left in the game. If Protosses want to go for a harass (in the stargate FE builds) they will most likely be going for Oracles now..And in dealing with mutalisks we got the capital ships already. If phoenixes will be better harrasers than the oracles then it has pratically no use to make oracles. If its the other way around the only thing phoenixes will be doing is providing some support vs mutalisks in the mid game, seems to small of a use to me.

I feel like overall the new protoss units are actually to tricky to handle in many ways...Replicant is just gonna be useless or OP, and the phoenix is either gonna get replaced by the capital ship (forgot name ) and the oracle or the oracle isnt really going to be viable. Maybe though getting a new unit for the replicant and moving the oracle to the robo bay could solve these things, but I dont know.

[GrEaTeR_KnArLoC]

I feel like overall the new protoss units are actually to tricky to handle in many ways...Replicant is just gonna be useless or OP, and the phoenix is either gonna get replaced by the capital ship (forgot name ) and the oracle or the oracle isnt really going to be viable. Maybe though getting a new unit for the replicant and moving the oracle to the robo bay could solve these things, but I dont know.

The phoenix is staying. The tempest replaces the carrier 

[Comadevil]

If you lower the cost so that copying units would be cost effective it would be OP. If you dont then its cost ineffective so its UP. Impossible to balance imo. So far the best uses are prolly getting yourself some fancy spell casters (eg ht infestor ghost), maybe tanks agains tthe 1/1/1 or banshees or something of that kind. Most interesting one Ive read is to get a replicant vs dt rush where you copy your opponents dt after getting detection and then going to his base where there is technically no detectin to be spotted anywhere near which would be gg instantly. Many people speculating about copying scv's to get yourselfs repaired units, mules, or even copying mules themselves. I wonder if things like that can even be fun (or viable), I mean, I think protoss zerg and Terran should be different races so if its viable to copy SCV's to get yourself a OC then I feel like it just messes up the game to see a protoss with 3 OC's or sth. It just doesnt feel right.


I think either way around this unit is going to be cut. First of all its basically either OP or UP. Secondly the other uses it'd have are so limited, and I tought Blizzard didnt want underused units. Lastly I feel like this just isnt right for the game. If it were to really get viable youd see half protoss half Terran armies, and I dont think you are still playing protoss then.

Depends, it can be a unit to make unexpected strategy. Also the copying of worker is under investigation. So if u cannot copy a worker u cannot get a OC. Copyiong of mules isn't cost-effective. I can imagine in having 2-3 replicants to instant react to opoonent's units when they show up by building the counter if it was spotted already. U won't be seeing mass replicants.

Also I feel like in the current state the oracle isnt really nice. It seems to have very few health and the forcefields over the minerals seem to have too few hitpoints. I do think that this unit can be amazingly viable if you actually balance the energy cost, their hp and the forcefield's hp out correctly. The only thing that seems concerning is that you have to build a stargate to get these units. Maybe they should cut the replicant, and put the oracle in the robotics facility. I dont know though.

I have to see oracle in action, before i won't judge it because such thing was never seen in RTS so far

The last thing I feel about these changes is the lack of use the phoenix will have now. I mean they aren't gonna be the best harasser left in the game. If Protosses want to go for a harass (in the stargate FE builds) they will most likely be going for Oracles now..And in dealing with mutalisks we got the capital ships already. If phoenixes will be better harrasers than the oracles then it has pratically no use to make oracles. If its the other way around the only thing phoenixes will be doing is providing some support vs mutalisks in the mid game, seems to small of a use to me.

I feel like overall the new protoss units are actually to tricky to handle in many ways...Replicant is just gonna be useless or OP, and the phoenix is either gonna get replaced by the capital ship (forgot name ) and the oracle or the oracle isnt really going to be viable. Maybe though getting a new unit for the replicant and moving the oracle to the robo bay could solve these things, but I dont know.

The tempest(=name of capital ship) is a tier 3 unit and its function to counter mass air. Phoenix is tier 2 and effective vs a small number of mutalisks. So it is not useless becuase u can use it in early-mid game as anti-air AND harass unit. U also don't build BC right now straight away except u are playing in Bronze

[HeJurmhoanni]

I feel like overall the new protoss units are actually to tricky to handle in many ways...Replicant is just gonna be useless or OP, and the phoenix is either gonna get replaced by the capital ship (forgot name ) and the oracle or the oracle isnt really going to be viable. Maybe though getting a new unit for the replicant and moving the oracle to the robo bay could solve these things, but I dont know.

The phoenix is staying. The tempest replaces the carrier 

NO!! The sc2 community will force blizzard to keep the carrier! Especially the tempest for its replacement is a really stupid unit!

[jerom]

I just feel that the phoenix's niche has been taken over by the oracle and the tempest..Its going to be an underused unit now.

[HeJurmhoanni]

I'd be more willing to get rid of the phoenix than the carrier for sure! Blizzard cant take the carrier out of the game, they have to tweak it a bit, make it the same as it was in bw. Wont be op im sure!

[Comadevil]

Very interesting interview with Dustin Bowder

Interview with Dustin Browder @ BlizzCon 2011